Source for tube in europe?

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Source for tube in europe?

Postby bloq » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:04 pm

Hey all,

i am going to buy all my stuff from lightobject but i am searching for a reliable source for a laser tube in europe because of the extremely high shipping cost for a tube from the states.
Does anyone know where to buy?

thanks!
André
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Re: Source for tube in europe?

Postby Halfdead » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:21 am

I've been looking at https://www.sinjoe.com as an alternative.
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Re: Source for tube in europe?

Postby Zebethyal » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:08 am

I hear what you are saying - shipping and duty are a killer for importing reasonably high value items from the USA, or China to Europe.

Let me state up front that I have absolutely nothing against Lightobject or the prices they charge, if I lived in the US, I would almost certainly be buying all my parts from them, I am merely using their prices in a comparison example for importing goods to the UK.

If I were to buy a tube from Lightobject, I would be looking at $220.00 for the tube and $80.00 shipping (these prices are from their ebay listing for this item), this would then attract duty at say 2.5% and VAT at 20%.

The actual rate for the duty is not that important in these calculations as it is tiny compared to the VAT costs and unless the total value of the shipment, including shipping costs is below about £20-25.00 it is going to attract import duty and VAT.

Import duty is calculated against the value of the goods + shipping and insurance costs, for an item as potentially fragile as a laser tube, you do not want to be downgrading the value of the shipment for customs purposes, just in case you need to make a claim for a damaged tube, so $220.00 + $80.00 = $300.00

Duty @ 2.5% of $300.00 is $7.50

VAT is calculated against the total value, plus duty, so $300.00 + £7.50 = $307.50

VAT @ 20% of $307.50 is $61.50

New cost of item to my door in $US is 307.50 + 61.50 = $369.00

cost in £UK using exchange rate of 1.55 is £238.00

cost in Euros using exchange rate of 1.1 is 335.50 Euros

I would then need to add £10.00 to this total for the pleasure of having the Post office handling all of the import paperwork and paying the duty and VAT in advance, thereby bringing my cost up to £248.00.

This is one of the reasons I initially went with buying a Chinese laser engraver to use for parts.

Cost of laser engraver shipped to my door from a warehouse in Portsmouth (UK) - £270.00

This then includes all of the following parts (shown with Lightobject prices against them):

laser tube $220.00
focus mount $9.95
Mirror mount $12.50 (2 required)
20mm mirror $15.00 (3 required)
improved 18 or 20mm focus lens $39.00

The total for this lot is (220.00 + 9.95 + 12.50 + 12.50 + 15.00 + 15.00 + 15.00 + 39.00) $338.95

You are probably still looking at around $80.00 for shipping and insurance, it may well be higher, but we will assume it is still the same: $338.95 + $80.00 = $418.95

Duty @ 2.5%: $418.95 * 0.025 = 10.47, new total = $418.95 + $10.47 = $429.42

VAT @ 20%: $429.42 * 0.2 = $85.88, new total = $429.42 + 85.88 = $515.30

cost in £UK @ 1.55 = £332.45
cost in Euros @ 1.1 = 468.46 Euros

I would still need to add the Post office £10.00 handling fee, so £342.45.

So I save over £70.00, by buying the £270.00 Chinese laser engraver, plus I receive a bunch of other items that I can potentially use in the build as well:
2 x nema17 stepper motors, not ideal as they use a flat ribbon cable connector - worth around £10-15.00 each
pond pump for water system - worth about £20.00
power supply - may/may not be usable for PWM depending on supplier - worth about £30.00
rubber hose - may want to use some of better quality
linear bearings, precision rod, etc, - potentially useful for other projects
steel case - could be cut up for other projects
orange acrylic window on top of engraver - free piece of 3mm acrylic worth about £10.00
Moshi draw or whatever they currently call it and controller board - only really fit for the bin
Fume extraction fan and hose - again only really fit for the bin unless you have a use for a relatively low CFM fan, still better than no fan I suppose.

So assuming I used some or all of these parts, I am £90-150.00 better off starting with a new Chinese laser engraver that is already in my country than buying the parts and importing them.

The story would be almost the same for importing the items yourself from China - the import duty/VAT rates would still be calculated in exactly the same way

Personally I have a VAT registered company from my days as an IT contractor, so I could potentially claim back the VAT element if I could justify the items as a legitimate business purchase, but I would still have to pay the import duty, most people building DIY laser cutters don't have that luxury.

Just some food for thought.
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Re: Source for tube in europe?

Postby lasercnc3dprinter » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:33 pm

In fact many Chinese cargo are transported by third party forwarders who will not declare real value.That will not cost much on that tax.
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Re: Source for tube in europe?

Postby lasercnc3dprinter » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:36 pm

Halfdead wrote:I've been looking at https://www.sinjoe.com as an alternative.

Cool.
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Re: Source for tube in europe?

Postby cvoinescu » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:54 pm

lasercnc3dprinter wrote:In fact many Chinese cargo are transported by third party forwarders who will not declare real value.That will not cost much on that tax.
True. Until Customs calls you and asks you what is that $5 "car accessory" that's made of glass and clearly cost at least twenty times that in shipping, and can you please forward them a copy of the invoice or receipt?
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Re: Source for tube in europe?

Postby Zebethyal » Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:10 am

There are a couple of sellers on ebay selling 35W lasers one as low as £79.40 + £60.00 P&P (£3.50 duty, £28.70 VAT, £10 Post office) makes for £182.20 delivered.

35W is what many of the Chinese sellers call 40W (they are quoting peak power when they say 40W, although even then they are often stretching the truth somewhat) - if the tube is 700mm long, most of the time it will be 35W , a true 40W CO2 tube is usually 850mm long.

@halfdead
I had a quick look at the Sinjoe site, and I have not seen any laser tubes under 60W listed on their site, and these tubes are around 1250mm long - not a bad price though and you receive 2 tubes for $299.00, their shipping estimator came up with a cheapest quote with DHL of $374.22 ($16.83 duty, $138.00 VAT) $690.00 or £445.20, so after PO, £455.20 delivered, making the tubes £222.60 each. Like I said, not a bad price if you can sell one or are happy with that price for a spare, but you will also need to build a much bigger laser cutter to accommodate the tube.

@lasercnc3
Fewer of the Chinese companies are marking down the value of the goods these days, I think they are being stopped at customs and returned if they are suspected of under valuing shipments.

Even Hobby King, who historically were happy to down value shipments seem to have stopped this as a general practice, 2 of my recent shipments from their global warehouse have attracted duty, VAT, etc - makes for an expensive purchase when the original purchase price was around $50.00 and $10.00 P&P, (£38.70) this then attracted £0.96 duty, £7.93 VAT and £8.00 Post Office charge meaning I have to pay £16.89 just to collect my package from the Post Office - half the cost of the original shipment (inc P&P).
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Re: Source for tube in europe?

Postby lasercnc3dprinter » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:45 pm

Zebethyal wrote:There are a couple of sellers on ebay selling 35W lasers one as low as £79.40 + £60.00 P&P (£3.50 duty, £28.70 VAT, £10 Post office) makes for £182.20 delivered.

35W is what many of the Chinese sellers call 40W (they are quoting peak power when they say 40W, although even then they are often stretching the truth somewhat) - if the tube is 700mm long, most of the time it will be 35W , a true 40W CO2 tube is usually 850mm long.

@halfdead
I had a quick look at the Sinjoe site, and I have not seen any laser tubes under 60W listed on their site, and these tubes are around 1250mm long - not a bad price though and you receive 2 tubes for $299.00, their shipping estimator came up with a cheapest quote with DHL of $374.22 ($16.83 duty, $138.00 VAT) $690.00 or £445.20, so after PO, £455.20 delivered, making the tubes £222.60 each. Like I said, not a bad price if you can sell one or are happy with that price for a spare, but you will also need to build a much bigger laser cutter to accommodate the tube.

@lasercnc3
Fewer of the Chinese companies are marking down the value of the goods these days, I think they are being stopped at customs and returned if they are suspected of under valuing shipments.

Even Hobby King, who historically were happy to down value shipments seem to have stopped this as a general practice, 2 of my recent shipments from their global warehouse have attracted duty, VAT, etc - makes for an expensive purchase when the original purchase price was around $50.00 and $10.00 P&P, (£38.70) this then attracted £0.96 duty, £7.93 VAT and £8.00 Post Office charge meaning I have to pay £16.89 just to collect my package from the Post Office - half the cost of the original shipment (inc P&P).


In fact a tube includes agreement power and peak power.
And if you're in Europe,that would be much better to import from somewhere of EU.It would save a part of money.Anyway,no solution is perfect.
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Re: Source for tube in europe?

Postby lasercnc3dprinter » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:55 pm

cvoinescu wrote:
lasercnc3dprinter wrote:In fact many Chinese cargo are transported by third party forwarders who will not declare real value.That will not cost much on that tax.
True. Until Customs calls you and asks you what is that $5 "car accessory" that's made of glass and clearly cost at least twenty times that in shipping, and can you please forward them a copy of the invoice or receipt?


:) Poor trick.At least rename it as something like "bearing".But it is really a big problem.If custom is not sure about something on the list,it will be mostly likely charged with a extremely high tax.I bet over 90% custom officials didn't have any idea about the application and materials of a co2 laser parts.So tragedy happens again and again.
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